Episode 3 – Championing Neurodivergent Talent

Dr. Leigh Anne Taylor Knight: Welcome to The DeBruce Foundation’s Empowering Careers podcast, where we explore insights and strategies for building empowered careers. Today, I am thrilled to welcome Kate Duffy. Kate is the mother of two sons with Autism, and she facilitates and supports an advocacy group for parents of adult children with Autism and developmental disabilities. As a lifelong educator and transition navigator, Kate has helped college students with disabilities prepare for the workforce. She has served as a Universal Design for Learning Coordinator with a project funded by the National Science Foundation. She’s even a co-published a book co-written with the esteemed Dr. Temple Grandin. She has done so much to build inclusive classrooms, communities, and help people build empowered careers. I’m just thrilled have her on our show today. Welcome, Kate.

Kate Duffy: Thank you. It’s a real pleasure to be here.

Dr. Leigh Anne Taylor Knight: First, maybe let’s talk about you and your own empowered career. Can you just tell us a little bit about your career journey, Kate? How did you get to where you are today?

Kate Duffy: Okay. Well, when I started college at 18, I was paying my own way through college. So, I was working a million hours. And after a couple of years, I simply flamed out. I probably had some learning disabilities undiagnosed, which made it difficult. I joined the Americorp Vista and became a community organizer. With that job, I learned to listen to people, to really listen to people, hear what they were saying, what was important in their lives. I also learned to speak with them in a way that made them feel included and made them want to be involved in the community project that we were taking on. Those traits, those skills have worked for me in all the different jobs I’ve had. And they also led me to a career which I think of as a social justice career. When I was teaching at the community college, I was teaching low-income people who needed to get a college education but also needed to know more about jobs and how to get jobs that fit their particular strengths. At the same time, I’m writing a book called “How to be Happily Employed” in Kansas City, and I’m taking all that career information and using it with my students so that they are researching careers as part of a research project and deciding which careers are the best fit for them depending on the qualities that they chose a good career fit.

Kate Duffy: Anyway, I just wanted to share that information with my students and then shared it also with the students with disabilities that I worked with at both UMKC and with Penn Valley.

Dr. Leigh Anne Taylor Knight: I love, too, how you frame that. It’s both been a personal journey and a professional journey for you that you’ve gotten to really meld together the skills and what you care about doing. So that leads me to, I can’t let you get off the hook without telling us what your top three Agilities are, Kate. So, what are those?

Kate Duffy: I can make you guess them, but Okay, I will try to get…

Leigh Anne Taylor Knight: Let’s play that game. Is Developing Others one of your top three Agilities?

Kate Duffy: It was actually number two.

Dr. Leigh Anne Taylor Knight: Yes. Developing Others is one of them. Is Serving and Caring?

Kate Duffy: That was number three.

Dr. Leigh Anne Taylor Knight: Okay. And is innovating?

Kate Duffy: That was number one.

Dr. Leigh Anne Taylor Knight: All right. And truly, that’s exactly what you’ve done. You’ve been able to think about the ways that you can even cross-pollinate what you’re doing personally but also activating the community to be able to operate in that space of developing others, serving others. So, I love how your three agilities have combined to actually be able to help you on your career path and that you’ve used those in so many wonderful ways for our local community, but also for others. You know that at The DeBruce Foundation, we love to do research, and we’ve done some research that helps us understand a little bit about how to build careers with higher wages, less risk of unemployment, better benefits, more autonomy over work conditions and such. And we call that employment empowerment. And as one of our Agility Coaches, you happen to know that the research is really pretty clear about the two factors that we can grow and develop in individuals to help them be on a pathway to employment empowerment. One of those is career literacy, all of your career navigation, all of the kinds of things that you’ve done to help people understand their vision and how they could prepare themselves and orient themselves towards what want to achieve in that.

Dr. Leigh Anne Taylor Knight: And the second area is strong networks, right? And I think that you’ve spent some of your own social capital on helping others get into some networks. So how do you see the impact of career literacy and strong networks? How have those shown up in your own career? And how have those shown up in the careers of your students? You talked about Penn Valley and UMKC and others.

Kate Duffy: Right. So When I was writing that series of books, The How to be Happily Employed in Kansas City, I learned so much that I didn’t know about the career process. It was eye-opening for me. Then, of course, eye-opening for my students when I had them do those exercises. It’s just knowing you have options and knowing that if you can be organized by choosing the direction that you want to go and knowing as much as you can about that job and also about the economy. How is this job going to be affected by the economy? I’m thinking software developers right now. Just knowing that there are options. Okay, this one doesn’t work out. Take your same skills and move over this way and try that, which is what has happened to me over the years, too, is I’ve had, because I was half self-employed and half working for colleges and universities, I had to be very observant so that I could move in the direction that was a good fit for me and where the need was in the economy. The networking, I also call community building. I think community is so important. The first day of my English classes at Penn Valley, I would have students list out their community.

Kate Duffy: I asked them this question, who has your back? Who’s going to help you? Because a lot of the students were single parents. They had jobs that could be shaky sometimes. And so they needed to know who was their support, who was their community, who was their network. So we would draw that out, and I would draw out mine to share with them. And so my community has helped me with getting different jobs, all the way from when my kids went to Sweeney School, another parent in the School Advisory Committee hired me to do a writing project for them. I worked for the Learning Exchange. When charter schools were coming out. I was on a campaign with them to get charter schools up and running. Allen Village was the one I was personally connected to. I worked for the Learning Exchange for a while, writing about these different schools and what they had. Keeping your community close and letting them know what your skills are and what your interest is really valuable. One other thing about networking in community. After the first and second Developing Talents Editions came out, I did a lot workshops with KU’s Autism Across the Lifespan.

Kate Duffy: We put on some at Penn Valley. The thing that I wanted the parents to leave from that was to know how you got jobs through community. That when helping your son or daughter find a job, you have to build a map of your community. Who do you buy from? Where do they go to school? Do you have a church a religious organization you belong to? What library do you go to? You build out this community. Who does your aunt and uncle work for? You start talking with them about jobs that might be a good fit for your son or daughter. That information came from a wonderful organization called Griffin Hammes. They do job development across the country in very innovative ways. Especially around small business startups for people with disabilities. Just having your community in the forefront and talking with them about what’s going on and getting their help is a huge tool.

Dr. Leigh Anne Taylor Knight: I am so appreciative of your sharing a true tactic that can be used by parents of students. And your passion and advocacy for inclusive education across your career is so admirable, Kate. I love that we got a pure tactic there to do, and I’d love to talk just a little bit more about that. Can you just tell us why you think the work that you do in this area of inclusivity is so important and why it’s needed for those students and those parents? What’s behind that? Why is that so important, particularly now? You’ve been doing for a long time, but why is it so important now?

Kate Duffy: Well, one reason is obviously because I have sons with autism, so I have to keep an eye out for what their futures are going to look like. I just have a strong sense of social justice, and it drives me nuts that people who have all these talents, look at the talents that Temple has. I have a student who is a wonderful artist, but because of the disabilities that they have, it is hard for them to get into the workforce and use those disabilities. Also, on the other hand, society is missing out on a lot of people with talents that could contribute. It works both ways. We’re missing out as a whole on a lot of talent. Yeah.

Dr. Leigh Anne Taylor Knight: Well, and there are lots of reasons that we can’t afford to leave that talent behind, right? It’s both about those individuals as well as just what’s going to be better for the greater good. You mentioned this book that you and Temple have authored. And again, it’s in its third edition of publication, right? So there is obviously a need for people to see and to learn more about developing talents and careers for individuals with Autism. What I love about this book is you and Temple actually give specific examples of individuals and what their career journey has been like. And there are truly tactics in here that go with that. You also have a prelude that talks about how things have changed from the second edition to the third edition in the world. So could you tell us, could you just bring us into the space of like, hey, what is happening recently? Because I feel like the gave me hope that we have more going for us in terms of understanding what it is that we need to do so that no talent is left behind. So could you talk about that a little bit?

Dr. Leigh Anne Taylor Knight: Sure. I—At a government level, agencies around the country that work with people with disabilities on jobs are following the employment first philosophy, because for generally, people with severe disabilities and not so severe disabilities, after high school, they sit at home because there’s no services mandated for them. It takes a lot of effort on families’ part to get their kids into the system. What the system is saying is that we should have that be a priority, that our youth with disabilities are getting jobs. These agencies, and Missouri has signed on, and I’m not sure if Kansas has yet, but has signed on to say, This is our priority. That means more training for agency officials who work with people with disabilities and teaching them how really concrete strategies to help them find employment that’s a good fit for them. It promotes a system called the Discovery System, which is used for people with disabilities to find out more about their lives, like the agilities, what they’re good at, what they like to do, what their interests are, and to get to know them really, really well so you can help them find a job that’s a good fit.

Kate Duffy: That was one of them. Another one was that organizations like UMKC’s Institute for Human Development program that’s had it for years called Charting the Life Course. When they have a conference, they have tons of people come from across the country who use this system to help plan people’s, not just their job life, but their whole life, into recreation, where they’re going to live. It’s a process that families are taught, agencies are taught that work with them. It’s very well-coordinated and it’s across the country. Then we have the agilities. I’m an agilities coach. I went through the training a couple of years ago, and I want to go through it again as I attempt to work with more, this time adults with disability, just simplifying this process of finding out what you’re good at and what your interests are. Students, I don’t think oftentimes are given the opportunity when they’re in school to figure out what they’re good at. It’s in both parents and teacher’s realm to be watching and observing them to help them find that out. But the Agilities program really helps people figure that out in a fun way, and then also individually, but collaboratively.

Kate Duffy: If you’re doing it in a classroom, you can work with other people who are doing it. You can talk about what your findings are, the kinds of jobs. It also teaches them to research those jobs and to know what education or training are you going to need to get those jobs. That’s a real valuable, just how it has simplified that process more.

Dr. Leigh Anne Taylor Knight: Thank you so much for sharing those. Again, if you haven’t read the book, I really encourage you to read the book. Kate, if you could tell the world just one thing about supporting and empowering neurodivergent students or coworkers, what would it be?

Kate Duffy: I think to be respectful of them, not feel sorry for them, but to be respectful and find out more about them, what their life is like, what they like to do. Just going back to that, what are they good at? But be respectful of that process give them the opportunity to go through and figure out what they’re good at. My fear is, even though, and I don’t know this, and maybe you don’t know it either, Liam, but how is the Agilities program being used with special Ed students? Because school districts are using it, but are they using it with everybody?

Dr. Leigh Anne Taylor Knight: Yes. Thank you for even asking I’m asking about that. We are fortunate that we have some school districts that are using it across the board. And in the K-12 resources that we released in November of 2024, we do include in there some very specifics about ways to use them with students across the spectrum of abilities and recognizing that there are lots of ways that these activities will build confidence and can be used with a variety of learners. And even this ability, it’s always important. And you mentioned it, starting at the beginning with, hey, what is it that you like to do? And understanding more about what you do well. At the same time, understanding that you can grow and develop other skills. So being in that space of growth mindset. So that’s where I have heard a lot of individuals who work with students with special needs say, these activities, even this agile work profiler, these are things that make my students feel better about themselves rather than less than or worse. And so if nothing else, I think that is very important. But we do have some real intentionality around the designs of the activities that can be used.

Dr. Leigh Anne Taylor Knight: And again, you can never start too early, right? Like kindergarten, first grade, second grade, we can already be talking about the kinds of work activities that someone will pay you to do someday. Oh, those are the agilities. And you’re learning how to serve and care for others now, how to organize, how to manage, how to do those things. And maybe that brings us full circle back to developing one’s career happens all across the lifetime. And you have had a very successful career, that you have been able to cross over your passion and caring about people on the spectrum, as well as social justice issues, as well as education. So if you could give one piece of advice to our listeners today about how they can build their own careers or help others build theirs. In addition to that, be respectful of individuals, no matter who they are when you meet them. What other piece of advice might you give, Kate?

Kate Duffy: I would say keep an open mind. Know that things change all the time and that if you are observant, you can see those changes and you can go with the flow of the changes and figure out your next steps. Just keep in mind that things will change. It’s important to have options and just to know what those options are.

Dr. Leigh Anne Taylor Knight: Yes. Well, and thank you for doubling down on… I love this network strength defined as community building. I’m going to take away that question, which is, who’s got your back. I think that’s something that all of our listeners can also take away. Things are going to change. You’re going to grow and change. It’s important to know what you like to do, but also know who is in your community, know who’s got your back, build that community. And we can all be blessed by taking a lesson from you today, Kate, which is put into words so that others can use the information and the tactics that you have learned across your lifetime Don’t be afraid to fight for what is right in terms of the social justice work that you have done locally in the community and beyond. And most certainly, keep pouring into other people, bringing your best self to basically help them be better every day. I’ve seen you do that, Kay. Know that your career has been about that. And it’s just been a blessing to have you with us today to reinforce lessons with all of us on that front. For everyone who tuned in, if you’ve enjoyed our conversation, be sure to check out our website at debruce.org

Dr. Leigh Anne Taylor Knight: And follow the DeBruce Foundation on social media for more career building resources. Together, we can build empowered careers. We’ll see you next time.