Episode 2 – Building Confidence in the Classroom

Leigh Anne Taylor Knight: Welcome to The DeBruce Foundation’s Empowering Careers Podcast, where we explore insights and strategies for building empowered careers. I’m so excited that today we are welcoming to our cast, Missy Testerman. Just last year, Missy was named National Teacher of the Year. She has served as a first and second grade teacher in the Rogersville City School District in Rogersville, Tennessee, for three decades. Missy is the perfect example of someone with a growth mindset. She saw an opportunity to actually get a credential around ESL, and so she jumped into that, and now she serves kindergarten through eighth grade students as well as their families. She is an advocate for educators, for families, and for her students. I am just so excited to get to speak with the National Teacher of the Year today. So, Missy, welcome to our podcast. 

Missy Testerman: Thank you, Leigh Anne. Thank you so much for asking me to be here today. 

Leigh Anne Taylor Knight: So, you have had such an amazing career. I know that there are people in our audience out there that are just kind of, “Hey, wondering, when did you decide to be a teacher? And you’ve devoted your entire life to that. Why do that?” 

Missy Testerman: That’s a great question. So, for me, there wasn’t a moment that I decided I wanted to be a teacher that came later in life. It actually came as I was a five-year-old. The very first day that I walked into my kindergarten classroom, Leigh Anne, I met my kindergarten teacher. Her name was Mrs. Brown, and she was so warm and welcoming. I just fell in love with her, with our classroom, and I really just fell in love with how people learn. I was so enthralled that she could tell us things that we remembered, and then we knew them, and we could go tell other people who didn’t know them. That became sort of my whole thing. Every single day, I tried to figure out a way to learn something new and to be able to then go tell someone else so that they would know it. 

Leigh Anne Taylor Knight: Yeah, and how powerful that is. You know, I remember the name of my, and even the personality and everything about my kindergarten teacher too — Mrs. Allen. And I’m like, she made such a huge difference in my life. You know, even at that early stage, people start influencing our careers, right? You’re on a stage now this year where you probably have been asked a lot of times: What’s some of the best advice that you have ever had in your career? So share with our audience — what’s the best career advice you’ve ever received or that you’d like to give to others? 

Missy Testerman: That’s a really hard one, because there are a lot of great pieces of advice that I’ve been told over the years, Leigh Anne. But probably the most monumental piece of advice for me was to do everything that you do — to do it well. Whether it’s something really big that hundreds of people are going to see, or whether it’s something that you’re doing for one other person, you do everything to the best of your ability. Because if it’s going to be representative of your work, you always want your work to reflect how hard you work on it. So you just do everything the right way the first time. Because the reality is, if you don’t put that type of effort forth in everything you do, there will come a time when you start putting forth less effort — even into the big things. So I just think that’s a really pivotal piece of information: everything that you do should reflect how hard you work. 

Leigh Anne Taylor Knight: Well, and what wonderful advice for, again, anyone. Any career — that is important at every single stage of a career. And that’s important advice that managers and directors can give to the employees who work for them. It’s important advice that, you know, teachers can give to students — and to just build that confidence and to encourage them. 

And speaking of encouragement, you know, I’m not where I am today but for all of those teachers and folks that poured into me and expected really high standards. So can you talk with us a little bit about — you know, if we have some teachers and some educators listening today — what advice would you be giving them? What encouragement would you be giving to our educators these days who are listening? 

Missy Testerman: My first bit of encouragement would be to always remember how important this job is. Teaching is hard. It has always been hard. It will always be hard. The reality is, it’s probably harder now than it was just even a few years ago, because there’s so many interruptions, so many things going on inside students’ lives that distract them from being able to always learn the way that would be quickest and easiest. 

But it’s such an important job. But also that teachers have to be able to take care of themselves too. Being a teacher can’t be your whole identity — you’ll get burned out really quickly. You still have to find time to do the things that make you the person that you are. 

At the end of the day, we can’t be who we’re supposed to be if we’re just totally exhausted and mentally and physically drained. So it would be: always work really, really hard, definitely — but do the things that keep you recharged so that you are able to focus on school and on your students during the time that you’re there. 

Leigh Anne Taylor Knight: Oh, what good advice for all of us. It is really hard to give to others when we’re not taking care of ourselves. So it’s both. 

And let’s talk a little bit about the ways that you empower students. You know, you are known for empowering students, empowering their families, and really serving and supporting your fellow educators. So, Missy, tell us about a day in your classroom. What is it like? You know, what are the days that you go home and say, “Now that was a successful day”? What would that be? 

Missy Testerman: That’s a great question, and I’m sure every teacher who hears this will understand — a great day in a teacher world is a day when everything pretty much goes on schedule and stays on schedule. You feel like the kids have learned what they’re supposed to. You didn’t have any behavior things. No one vomited. 

But the reality is, those days are not typical. Classrooms are really busy places. There are so many moving parts. Kids have different needs. You have different things come up during the school day. My classroom is no different — particularly as a teacher who does not teach in the general classroom any longer. I teach English as a second language. 

So I might start the day, and it’s a regular day, and I have my little group of second graders, and we’re doing second grade things — and I get a call from the office that I have a new student. Or I get a call from a parent that they can’t find a copy of their child’s birth certificate and they need it to renew the passport. 

So then the day is — I don’t want to say interrupted, because those are just the things that happen. Just like every workplace has those things that happen, our teachers also face those things. So they have to figure out, “In this five-minute break between going to get another group of students, I need to also go by the office and get this family a copy of the birth certificate.” 

So classrooms are busy places with lots of things going on. But for me, a great day is one when I feel like the kids have been happy to be here and they’re happy to come back the next day. 

And that’s probably the most important part for me. No matter what type of day it’s been in my classroom or with a group of students, at the end of it, I want them to be excited about coming back tomorrow. And the reality is — I want to be excited about coming back tomorrow. I want to go home and rest and recharge, whatever, but also I want to get up in the morning and be ready to come back again. Because I actually enjoy this job. 

You can have a bad day. It doesn’t mean you have a bad job. 

Leigh Anne Taylor Knight: Oh, that’s a quotable quote — “You can have a bad day. It doesn’t mean you have a bad job.” And what an excellent role model for your students in that, and really being authentic with them about that, and kind of reminding them of that too. 

And you know, you’re talking about how dynamic the classroom can be. And just — yes, things are going to happen that are unexpected. And our world is very dynamic like that too, right? 

And even our workforce is evolving rapidly. So when you think about the future of your students and what their lives will be as they eventually exit school and take on careers in this — what are the kinds of things that you keep in mind to develop them for their bright futures? 

And you know, you’ve been doing this for a little bit of time — was it different, you know, 10 years ago or 20 years ago? When you think about how you approach preparing your students for the future, what does that look like and sound like? 

Missy Testerman: I do think, Leigh Anne, that it was different just a few years ago. When I first started teaching, it was very common for students to grow up and enter the workforce or go to college — whatever — but whichever job they ended up choosing, they were going to do for the next 25 or 30 years. 

That landscape has changed. We know now that people are fluid in their movement between careers — not just companies. They’ll shift and do an entirely different role with their skill set. 

So I think when we’re preparing students in the time that we live now, we have to help them keep an open mindset — that we are always learning. And that learning is not going to stop when you graduate high school or you graduate college. 

All throughout your life, you’re going to learn new things. You’re going to pick up new skills. And there may be a time you want to take those skills and transfer them to a whole new profession — because the reality is, that happens. 

So I think that we have to spend a lot of time helping them be well-rounded and have lots of different skill sets that they can bring into the conversation. 

You know, when most places hire now, they don’t hire someone to do specifically one role. They need you to be able to do parts of multiple roles. And I feel like that’s going to be the landscape of the workplace that our students come out in. 

And so it’s our job as educators, and for the education system, to figure out a way to prepare them to be lifelong learners, to be adaptable, and to never hem yourself into doing something just because that’s what you thought you wanted to do when you were 17. 

Doesn’t mean that you have to do that forever. You can always change. You can always learn new things and take those new skills with you to find a career that you love. 

Leigh Anne Taylor Knight: Yeah, Missy, you know, it’s inspiring to hear you speak. And I just feel like we are so blessed with educators like you — so many of them across the nation — who really do believe that this is the opportunity to go ahead and set individuals on that course for that growth mindset, and being open to those new experiences and those differences. 

So I’m so thankful for that. 

And you know, I was talking with a VP of a construction company the other day, and he said, “You know, I have to be able to — I hire people, and six months later, some of their work activities and job responsibilities have already changed.” 

So he goes, “When I hire them, I want to hire them there for much longer than that six months — but that’s how rapidly, you know, that’s changing.” 

When you think about activities in your classroom and experiences that you provide for students at your school, what are some of the ones that have maybe the most impact in helping them have that growth mindset or being open to those new opportunities? 

Missy Testerman: I think, first and foremost for me, is that as teachers, we have to constantly be making the skills that we’re teaching relevant to students so that they understand there’s a real-world application for this. 

And you know, that’s not something I did a very good job on as a new teacher. I taught the skills because that’s what I was supposed to do. But I didn’t relate it to — “Hey, when you grow up, there’s actually a job where you could use these skills we’re learning.” 

To measure — it’s going to help you with cooking. And when you grow up, you may want to work in architecture, construction — and you’re going to need to know how to measure and how to be very precise. I didn’t do a good job of that. 

But now I see that we have to make the skills that we’re teaching relevant to real life. And we have to always be, particularly in an area where I live — in a very rural area — exposing students to different career paths. 

I’ll use my own son as an example. He came through high school, graduated, went to college. He started in one major. His roommate was in another major, and he took a course in — it was supply chain management. Loved it. Absolutely loved the whole idea between logistics and how all of that works. 

Well, he changed his major. And I’ll be honest, when he told us that he changed his major, we had not even heard of that particular role. When I was young, it was called logistics. Once he explained, I was like, “Oh, so it’s logistics.” And he’s like, “No, Mom, it’s supply chain management.” 

But in our rural area, he did not see a lot of people who were in that role. I don’t know if he’d ever seen anyone in that role — because there are some jobs that are not represented in every part of America. Kids know what they see. 

So I feel like as classroom teachers, we have to constantly be saying, “If you really like drawing and designing and precision, you might be a great architect.” Because the reality is, in lots of places, kids have never seen an architect. 

They don’t know the role of the architect. They don’t understand that that’s a potential career path for them. 

So I feel like that’s really, really important — and in today’s climate, as we develop students to be lifelong learners and those people who contribute to our economy. 

Leigh Anne Taylor Knight: Yeah, thank you so much for sharing that, because I do think too, for those who may not be educators in our audience — but a lot of us are parents or aunts or uncles or grandparents — and so even as entire families, we have the ability to help make the learning relevant, right? 

And kids are learning all the time. They can be in formal settings for learning, but they can be in informal settings for learning. 

And so never underestimate — for our audience — to never underestimate the power that you have by being able to even talk with the career that you have. So that — I mean, your son’s experience is — the roommate was taking something, and that exposed him to something brand new and different. 

And when we drive back to, yeah, even what happens in the educational system — you know, I’ve always felt like education, teaching — it’s an art and a science. But, right? And it’s that intersection of the relationships that you have with the students, but also it’s about that relevance, right? 

So a lot of kids will be kindly compliant and just kind of go along with it, but you really open their minds when you start showing them the connection of how this would impact your future, but trying to help them see even opportunities that they never have before. 

I think the other thing that I’m sure you do — and I’ve heard you speak about this just a little bit — is in the space of building the confidence of your students. 

And so, you know, we’re at a day and an age when no talent can be left behind, right? And we have students of all varying experiences, of varying ability levels. 

And schools and parents and individuals who are going to hire them into the workplace are thinking about every single one of these individuals can bring value into the career marketplace. 

We really have to help them have the confidence and know about bringing that value. 

So I think when you’re talking about connecting what they’re doing to something — you know, relevance — that somebody will pay you to do that someday, and let’s get you excited about that. 

Talk a little bit about the strategies that educators, family members could use when they’re developing confidence in our youth to be able to be in the future workplace. 

Missy Testerman: I’m so glad that you asked that. That’s a question that I get a lot as a teacher — you know, from parents — and they will express a lot of times that their student gets super frustrated doing something and shuts down. 

Well, that’s a pretty typical human response. If you think about us even as adults — if I don’t know how to do something well and I can’t figure it out, I’m just going to stop because I see it as a waste of time. And our students do that too. 

So my response is, first — number one — the students you send us to school are not the same ones who live in your house. 

The ones that you send us to school usually have a much higher threshold at school, because at home they’re very comfortable, and they know they can let down and be frustrated, and maybe someone will help them work through it. 

But at school, there are so many of them, so the student that you send to school probably has better problem-solving abilities than he or she is exhibiting in your home. 

That’s very, very important, because a lot of times parents will be like, “I don’t know how you get anything done if they all act like he or she does.” Well, they don’t. And he doesn’t here either. 

But my thing would be to encourage the things that are difficult, because usually things are difficult for us because we haven’t done them enough. We’ve not had the experience to do them. So they’re uncomfortable, and we don’t want to do them. 

And when you do those things bit by bit, you’re building their confidence. You’re also building up their frustration threshold. And the frustration threshold, when it comes to learning, is so important. 

If you give up the minute that you are frustrated with something, you’re never going to learn very many new skills. You’re just going to do what you already know. 

So it is incredibly important that you keep offering opportunities for them to get frustrated. 

Being frustrated is okay. Being frustrated to the point where you want to quit, never see it again — that’s not okay. 

But being frustrated just a little bit — that something was hard, but yes, you pushed through it, and you did it — then that means that’s the greatest accomplishment at that point that they’ve made of that particular task. 

And then the next time, they can do something a little bit harder. But it is to show them that frustration is okay. It’s totally okay. It’s part of the learning process. 

And over opportunities like that, over time, kids develop confidence being able to do things by themselves. 

And I was guilty as a parent. I was one of those — I want to say self-raised. I was definitely loved, but we had a lot of independent time. We built things, we created things, we went for walks in the woods alone. 

We had a very typical childhood of that period of time. Kids don’t always get that now. 

Well, when my kids came along, I probably made the mistake — sake — of doing too much for them at times. And a lot of times that’s hard to back away from. 

If your child’s used to you putting on their shoes and tying them every morning, they are not going to get up one morning and say, “I’m going to do it by myself.” 

So anything we can do to encourage a little bit of positive frustration and giving them a pretty decent amount of independence is going to help them learn new skills — whether those new skills are putting their shoes on or whether it’s an academic skill at home or at school in the classroom. 

Leigh Anne Taylor Knight: Yeah, so I do — I hear you leaning into encouraging us to provide stretch opportunities for our youth and provide stretch opportunities for our kids. And I hear you, and I see you. 

And I think, you know, the same thing is true for adults. We can provide those stretch opportunities. 

And you know it is — that’s part of the work that the research here at The DeBruce Foundation has shown, even with students who are in internships. 

In only five weeks, they will actually change some of the things that they like to do and the skill level that they have for those things — in just five weeks in internships — because we know that when we’re stretched to try to do something… 

I mean, if I’m trying — we’re stretched to try to do something… I mean, if I’m trying to learn golf, and I’m not very good at it in the beginning, I also probably don’t like it very much, right? 

But as I get stretched, and then I start to go like, “Well, I can do this. Oh, I can hit that ball. I can — I can putt.” 

And then I start to go, “Well, maybe I like this. Maybe I like this a little bit more,” right? 

So when you’re talking about those stretch opportunities and then that belief in your students that they probably really are capable of doing more than you might think they are — and their tolerance for that problem-solving or that being frustrated — gosh, what important life skills that is. 

And I hear employers talk all the time about the fact that they want those kinds of resilient employees. They want those individuals. 

And so it is — it’s never too early for us to start practicing that with our youth. And I appreciate you and the other educators who do that. 

It’s a good reminder for all of us as parents to do that too. Now, if you could tell — oh, go ahead. 

Missy Testerman: No, I started to say, I’m guilty of it myself. I’m not claiming I did not do it as a parent, because Leigh Anne, I definitely did it as a parent. 

I was a swooper. I swooped in to fix things more often than I should. And I realized that at the time. And I understand sometimes it’s quicker, sometimes it’s easier. 

But it is — it is healthy for them, like you said, to build that resilience that will stay with them throughout their lives. 

Leigh Anne Taylor Knight: That’s exact — that’s exactly right. And I do, I do think too about some of the youth and, you know, the phases of life that people were in, even across COVID — and recognizing that it might have — we might have even had more tendencies to swoop in, or, you know, those kinds of things. 

Like we all — now owning that and recognizing that, and thinking about like, well, what does that mean going forward with individuals? 

And at the same time, having this healthy mindfulness around meeting people where they are, right? 

Teachers do that every day. They meet students where they are. 

And I’m like, well, if everybody could just, like, act like teachers in the workplace, we would be a lot better off. 

As in — like, how do we meet individuals where they are? 

Recognizing, as you said, meeting you where you are is also sometimes providing stretch opportunities and believing — maybe even more than you believe in yourself sometimes — that you can do something bigger and better. 

So if you were to tell the world one thing about today’s young learners, what would it be, Missy? 

Missy Testerman: For me, I have the belief, Leigh Anne, that our students today are not a lot different than the students I saw 30 years ago. 

You know, constantly we hear, “Kids have changed.” You know, kids are still kids. 

The way we parent has changed. The things that kids are exposed to on a daily basis have changed. The environment around them has changed. 

But kids basically are still the same. They still want to do well. They still want to make their families proud. 

It would be that — that, you know, we’re not in this hopeless situation, you know, where people constantly are saying, “You know, I don’t know about this generation.” 

Well, once upon a time, someone didn’t know about our generation, and we were just fine. And our students are going to be fine too. 

They — the environment has changed. The everything around them has changed. 

But at the end of the day, kids are still kids. They want to do well. They want to work hard. They’re capable of learning. 

And for me, I think it would be that, you know, it’s hard to look at our young people and not to feel hope for the future. 

I get frustrated when I hear people, you know, say things about, “There’s no hope for the future.” 

And I’m like, “You don’t see what I see every single day.” 

There is so much hope for our future. So I just — I just see it from a very different lens as someone who gets to spend a lot of time with young people. 

Leigh Anne Taylor Knight: I am so grateful, Missy, that you would share that lens with us and just remind all of us that there really is hope out there in these future generations. 

And you know it’s our job to mentor and coach and to guide them and to also let them find their way in this space. 

And so thank you for reminding us today that we can have hope in that. 

Some of the research that we’ve done at The DeBruce Foundation indicates that individuals who are really — what we call — empowered careers, they have better salaries, better benefits, more likely to be employed, more control over their working conditions. 

There are two things that we can grow and develop individuals to help them do that: one of them is career literacy, and one of them is network strength. 

So would you talk to us about the role of career literacy and network strength in the lives of your students, or the lives that we as adults can influence — the way that we can influence those? 

Missy Testerman: I would love to. That’s a great point. 

I feel like the career literacy — going back to what we talked about earlier — kids only know what they see. 

So we have to make sure that they understand that there are lots of different careers out there. 

And for almost everyone, there’s a way to find a career that capitalizes on your strengths and your abilities. 

And when you feel as though you’re competent and you enjoy your work, you’re more likely to stay, you know, in that role, to stay — to remain — doing that job. 

But I’m glad you mentioned the networking, because networking is not just who you know. 

It is how you’re able to communicate with people, how you’re able to make relationships with people really, really quickly. 

You know, you don’t have a lifetime to learn to love someone because he’s your cousin. 

You have, like, maybe five minutes where you meet someone. 

So you have to use those communication skills. And I think that’s really, really important. 

That is a deficit that, I’ll be honest, I do see among today’s young people. 

That’s not their fault. It is the fault of all of the distractions that are in their lives — cell phones, devices, video games — where there’s not a lot of communication going on. 

Sometimes it’s even the fact that we as parents are distracted by our own devices, and we’re not communicating as well. 

But those communication skills are going to help prepare them for a career someday — whether it’s that interview situation they walk into, whether it’s making a deal with a client that you met, whether it is, you know, handling a tough situation that comes up at work between you and another employee or a set of employees that you are in charge of. 

Those networking skills are so incredibly important. I see that as an adult. I didn’t always understand it, but I feel like we have to make students understand — that is why communication skills are a focus that we work on in the school setting. 

I teach English as a second language. One of the ways that my students are assessed every year is their speaking — their use of the English language in their speaking. 

And that’s because communication is important. It’s important. It’s important for building relationships. It’s important for the workplace. It’s important at home. 

You just have to be a good communicator. So I’m really glad that you brought up that networking piece of that. 

Leigh Anne Taylor Knight: Thank you so much for sharing that and giving us, you know, a strategy. 

It is about the communication piece. And so we appreciate that, Missy. 

Just — I’m just in awe to be able to get to have a conversation with the National Teacher of the Year. 

There’s no debating that you have been highly successful in your career. 

So for all the other people who are out there — what’s one thing that you would say to our listeners that they could do to build their own career? 

So, what’s that — what’s that little secret sauce? 

And not everybody’s going to be the national whatever of the year, but we get to have today the National Teacher of the Year. 

And so, yeah, what’s that one thing you would tell our listeners to do to build their own career, Missy? 

Missy Testerman: Well, first of all, thank you for those really, really nice words. 

I never saw being the National Teacher of the Year on my bingo card, but I’m awful thankful that — that it was. So eternally thankful. 

But I think it would be — my one piece of advice would be to always learn everything that you can about as much as you can. 

And because I feel like that learning not only improves your own skills and makes you more adaptable in every situation, I feel like also, it helps teach us empathy. 

When we learn how hard something is, or we see a different viewpoint of, you know, the person at the airline counter when my flight has been canceled and I’m upset — it is not the fault of the person at the airline counter. 

And that poor person, that gate agent, is doing her job to the best of her ability, and she’s under a lot of stress, and because other stressed people are taking their stress out on her. 

I think it teaches you empathy when you see how hard someone else’s job is and the skill set that they have to have. 

I feel like that’s really important. There is no such thing in my mind as unskilled labor. 

I hate when someone refers to that as an excuse to pay people less. You know, they’ll be like, “That’s unskilled labor.” 

I’m like, “If you’ve ever put a roof on a house, that is not unskilled labor.” 

If I did it, it would be unskilled. Those guys have definite skills. Every single job requires skills. 

I mean, that’s the reality. Most of us cannot waltz into most places and do the things — the services — that other people are doing for us, because we don’t know those skills. 

But I feel like it teaches you some empathy when you expand your own learning. 

And it’s just to always be a lifelong learner. I know that’s cliché, but to always be willing to learn new viewpoints, to learn new skills. 

And it’s like I told my kids, you know, when they were teenagers and got jobs as lifeguards or babysitters or at the grocery store: 

There was never a job throughout my career where I have not learned something that was useful later. 

You know, years later — when I was in high school, I worked in a grocery store. Years later, I can calculate change in my head really quickly. 

I also know how to tie bows for flowers and weddings, because that was something I learned while working there. 

So there’s never been anything in my life that I haven’t learned in a job that didn’t transfer somewhere else in my life later. 

Leigh Anne Taylor Knight: Those are good words of advice. 

And Missy, thank you so much for being with us today. That is really — we’ve covered a lot of fantastic insights. 

But one of that red threads is that one that you’re leaving us with. And it may be cliché to be a lifelong learner, but you know, we started the top of the podcast with even the importance of stretching people into learning. 

You have been a perfect role model, again, of someone with a growth mindset. 

Yes, I’ve been doing this teaching thing. But, you know, I want to be credentialed to actually help more students and more families and in new and different ways. 

And so you really have also provided us, I think, today, with strategies of — while we want to provide these opportunities for people to grow and to develop — we also want to strengthen one another’s networks, be there for one another. 

The relationships are important, and how relevant it is for especially our young people to get to see careers and opportunities that they might not have ever heard of previously. 

So I appreciate your insights today. I appreciate even more the work that you do every single day with the youth who you serve. 

And thank you for being just a wonderful ambassador for educators across the year as the National Teacher of the Year. 

It’s been a pleasure to have you with us today. 

For everyone who’s tuned in — if you enjoyed the conversation today, be sure to check out our website at debruce.org and follow The DeBruce Foundation on social media for more career-building resources — excellent advice like we heard from Missy today. 

Together, we can build empowered careers. We’ll see you the next time.